What You Don't Know Means Everything to Me
A natter with David Gibbs and Stephen Hurley of Gigolo Aunts
Gigolo Aunts; Steve Hurley, Paul Brouwe, Phil Hurley and Dave Gibbs.
On Saturday March 19th 1994, at around 745pm, I did something rather ungallant. Myself and the cream of my peer group were in the Wolverhampton Civic Hall to see our pop heroes, the Wonder Stuff, and before they appeared I asked a lovely girl called Catherine to move out of the way a bit so I could get a clearer view of a beautiful gold top Gibson Les Paul. The guitar belonged to Phil Hurley of Gigolo Aunts, and thanks to ultra repeated viewing of the song Bloom recorded at the previous summers Reading Festival for Gary Crowley's The Beat TV program, my friend Trig and I probably knew every scratch on the guitar better than the actual owner. The VHS tape grew thinner and weaker as our love grew deeper and stronger. We looked at that guitar like Catholics looking at the Sistine chapel ceiling, quietly and in absolute awe.
The gig turned out to be something of Swiss clock where one person comes in and one goes out. The Wonder Stuff, at this point, were nearing the end of their pop journey and starting to dissolve quite badly (singer Miles Hunt would have to down a bottle of wine before even contemplating going on stage and entered stage with one in each hand. They would break up that August with a giant funeral party at the Phoenix Festival) where as Gigolo Aunts were absolutely in their cups and found life on the road as exciting and novel as the Stuffies found it tiresome and dull. Maybe love was like a merry-go-round after all.
Gigolo Aunts dug their way out of the Boston band scene and into the UK indie consciousness via the sublime double sided 7” of Cope and Bloom. Originally self released, it wasn't too long before Clive Solomon, no slouch when it came to sniffing out a money making indie hit, put it out on Fire records. How Cope never hit it bigger in the indie charts is beyond me. It starts off full of swirly wah guitars, feedback and pounding drums, so far so support band the cynic may think to himself, before out of nowhere and without sufficient warning it twists into the sunniest harmony drenched swoon of chorus this side of Gerry Love and Grand Prix (more of whom later). A very neat trick. The single was enough to convince Fire to release the bands sublime long player Flippin' Out, complete with a young Chloe Sevigny on the sleeve, in October '93. The LP lead to tours supporting Cranberries, current NME darlings Suede and the aforementioned Wonder Stuff tour.
1993 also saw the release of single Where I Find My Heaven. Despite modest indie chart bothering and Solomon reformatting the singles Bloom, Cope and Where I Find My Heaven to within an inch of their lives, the success that the band so richly deserved was not forthcoming. RCA had another go at the top, and released a slightly different 'US' version of Flippin' Out in 1994. Then fortune came knocking a little late when the BBC used Where I find My Heaven as the theme tune to the brain dead sitcom Game On (misogynistic idiot garners sympathy due to agoraphobia or something. I loved it as a 15 year old which tells you everything you need to know about the level of 'humour'. It made Benny Hill look like Bauhaus). But everyone loved the song, catapulting it to a top 30 hit in the actual UK charts some two years after it's initial release. Only, bafflingly, no-one appeared to think to get the band to tour the UK to support the singles triumph. It could have been oh so different.
Anthony H Wilson had a theory that the cities of Manchester and Detroit have been influencing each other for decades. The Detroit sound of Northern Soul filling the floor at the Twisted Wheel, Detroit kids inventing Techno after hearing Blue Monday etc etc. Similarly, there's a wonderful cross roads between American indie pop and that of it's Scottish counterpart. The kids in Bellshill looked towards Neil Young, Nuggets and Big Star for their influence whilst in Boston they looked towards Teenage Fanclub, BMX Bandits (both also an influence on Kurt Cobain) and the C86'y Caledonian sound, all the while both scenes considering their cousins over the water cooler, cuter and more hip than they were.
Despite an obvious Big Star influence on Gigolo Aunts (The intro to Mrs Washington is near direct lift from Thank You Friends), their harmonies and pop sensibility owes at least a small debt to the pop of Glasgow. Indeed, the Aunts covered BMX Bandits (Serious Drugs) and Teenage Fanclub (Alcoholiday) and considering both bands allergies to commercial success but receiving cult like adoration from the more sussed up connoisseur pop kids, it's perhaps regrettable that Gigolo Aunts (a band for those who know) didn't tour extensively with one of the great Scottish bands with audiences with open minded music fanatics rather than, say, Suede with a their front row of NME trendies and Brett worshippers.
That said, it's somewhat surprising that the bands final LP, Minor Chords and Major Themes, an ambitious and pleasingly grown up record, seemingly bypassed all but the ultra hip both in the UK and US but found an adoring audience in Spain. This is perhaps why the Gigolo Aunts did their final ever tour in Spain. Or did they?
I spoke to Dave Gibbs (vox/guitar) and Steve Hurley (bass/vox) to find out. Here's hoping Catherine has forgiven me...
Can you give us Limeys a flavour of the late 80's/90's Boston indie scene?
Steve Hurley: The period from about ‘88- ‘93 was a golden period. There were so many good bands and clubs. I think it was analogous to Glasgow at the same time. There were a ton of students who wanted to be entertained, so there was a lot of opportunity. Like Glasgow, and unlike LA and NY. the Boston scene at the time did not have its gaze cast towards the big record labels that much. It was more about trying to be a really good band and make it to the top of the Boston pile..
When we arrived in ‘87, we had to re-learn our craft a bit. In Boston, a band had to come out with all guns a blazing right away. There were so many good bands, and you really had to be pretty good to get noticed. It took us a while. The Pixies and Throwing Muses really set the scene on its ear by going to Britain and becoming successful. That became the template for many bands in that period, get a deal in the U.K (or Europe), make some noise there, and then land a bigger deal in the U.S. That’s the way it worked for many of my favorite bands of the era.. Later in the mid 90’s, the big labels pounced on Boston, and a lot of bands were signed before they were fully realized, in my opinion. The music scene was competitive, but it was also a ton of fun, and we made so many lifelong friends during that. We used to have parties on the roof of our rehearsal space after gigs. You had to climb up a steel ladder to get onto the roof. I remember at least once, there was a partygoer who climbed the ladder in a skirt with no underwear. Fun times!
David Gibbs: The Boston scene in the late 80s/early 90s was really amazing. Because the city is made of of so many colleges, there are kids from all over the place, and the scene was incredibly fertile and varied. There were plenty of places to play, and a few very supportive local radio stations. Plus, it was close enough to NYC to be able to go down and play there, but far enough away for it to be it’s own thing. One thing that stands out about that scene and that time is that is was really incestuous; people played in a lot of bands together (ie: Evan Dando playing bass in the Blake Babies, John Strohm playing guitar in Lemonheads …), and it wasn’t as cutthroat as LA, as competitive as NYC, or as nihilistic as Seattle. It just seemed more encouraging and collaborative. I’m not sure what it’s like now, but it was a really special time and I’m glad I was able to be there then.
What memories do you have of the 1992 Wonder Stuff UK tour?
SH: I have a ton of great memories of that tour. The Wonder Stuff and their crew treated us like gold. Miles had this reputation for being pretty prickly, and we were nervous to meet him at first, but he was so gregarious and thoughtful.
One of my best memories is because we played so many gigs with WS, we built up our own following amongst their fans. For the last five or more shows, there were three girls that made a banner that said “It Feel Great To Be Alive” on it, in reference to the song, “Gun,” which I sang, so seeing that banner every night was pretty touching. I don't think we ever had fans hold up a banner anywhere else. At the end of the tour, the girls (their names were Elisa, Jane, and Pippa). At the end of the tour, they gave the banner to us, and it now hangs proudly in the exercise room of my house.
DG: That was a bit of a blur, to be honest, but I remember having a really amazing time. Miles and the WS were just an incredibly great live band, probably at their peak on that tour, and he was super generous guy; made sure we were taken care of, and encouraged us to do whatever we wanted.
Unfortunately, I think we were probably having more fun than they were at the time. I think they were going through some internal band issues by that point, but we were a bit blissfully unaware, and just had fun steamrolling through the UK. I will say- that was slightly before decent coffee had made it’s way to your shores, so that part was ROUGH. Plus- it was freezing the entire time!
On a weird note- one of the coolest things that happened was on a night off. We were staying near Sheffield, and heard that Jeff Buckley was playing in a pub nearby. We all went down, and sure enough, Jeff showed up in a crazy fur coat, with a Tele and Roland JC120 amp, and proceeded to demolish that room with his beautiful voice and presence. It was shocking how good he was, and everyone knew we were watching something incredibly special. I will never forget that.
How did having Chloe Sevigny on the sleeve come about?
DG: I saw her in a magazine and thought she had a super interesting look. She was still in high school, but somehow we managed to get in touch with her and she came up to Boston and did a bunch of photo shoots for us. Later, we had her do the cover for Flippin Out, and go to LA for the Cope video. That was pretty sweet actually, as I think it was her first time there, and she was super shy. She had the hotel bring a cot into the room I shared with our drummer because she didn’t want to be alone in her room, so she shoved the bed between ours and slept there. I think she was only 16 or 17 then, but she had a fully realized sense of style that was fantastic, and she was just a cool kid.
SH: Dave had spotted her in a small photo is Sassy magazine, where she was working as an intern. Dave has a great eye for design, and he could see right away that she had this innate coolness to her. Somehow he tracked her down and she did the photo session. She was still in high school I think. She was already totally herself, sort of iconically odd, but also very personable.
We did the photos with a photographer named Micheal Lavine (who also did photos for tons of 90’s bands). His photos were a big part of the look of the era. Chloe was such a natural at the session that Lavine soon used for a Luna record and a Sonic Youth video, which I think led to her getting cast in Kids. It’s fun to think we had a small part in launching her career, but honestly, it was inevitable. She had the goods (and still does!)
You covered both Teenage Fanclub and BMX Bandits. Can you tell us how the Scottish indie scene influenced you?
DG: I was (and still am) a big fan of lots of early 80s “the sound of young Scotland” bands- Joseph K, Orange Juice, Aztec Camera, Del Amitri and especially The Blue Nile (still an all-time top 5 band for me). Musically (with the exception of Blue Nile), they were all guitar driven pop groups, and I liked how they blended Beatles type pop songs with folky elements and the occasional dance influence (later period OJ in particular), plus a killer sense of style.
Something about those groups struck a nerve with me and my co-writer/bassist Steve Hurley. Steve had spent a year studying in London and would send me mixtapes of various bands to check. So Scottish music was sort of always on my radar, and Teenage Fanclub just kind of put everything together for me. I loved the shambolic nature of them, the divine melodies, and the air of “un-seriousness”. It seemed like we probably shared a lot of the same influences, and had quite a few mutual friends. Same with BMX Bandits.
I met Duglas when I was touring with Velvet Crush, and he made me a mix tape I still listen to regularly.
The BMX song happened because I heard it in a record store in NYC between soundcheck and show one night, and loved it instantly. I made the owner play it three times so I could write down the lyrics and see if I could figure it out, and when I got back to the club, worked it out on guitar, showed it to the band, and we played it that night.
SH: We absolutely loved those bands. I have been a big fan of Scottish bands for years. We all loved Orange Juice, Del Amitri (especially the first album), Aztec Camera, and the Pastels, so we got the later bands right away. Sometimes it bothered me that we got compared to Teenage Fanclub because we were around as a band for quite a while before we ever heard of them.
Dave was a huge Big Star fan going back to the mid 80’s, and that band was always a big influence on us. In the final analysis, Teenage Fanclub is probably my favorite band of the 90s (along with Sloan).
When we played in Glasgow on our own (before the big Wonder Stuff tour), it was a big honor when Duglas, Gerry and Raymond came out to see us. Plus we played at the Arches with Eugenius, which was a thrill. I remember we went out to a number of pubs afterwards, and it seemed every place we went into the barman looked like Eugene, and I would mention this, and Eugene would say, “yeah, that’s my brother.” I probably have exaggerated the story in my mind, but that is my memory.
How did the success of WIFMH in the UK effect you?
DG: Honestly- I’m not really sure. That happened a little while after we had done a massive amount of touring over there, so we weren’t really there when it was in the charts. Which is kind of a shame. We probably should’ve gone back for another round of touring, but we were pretty burned out by then.
SH: Honestly, the success of that single was kind of a tragedy for us because we never got to enjoy it. We worked hard to set the song up on the Wonder Stuff tour, but when it happened our management did not want us to spend any more time in the U.K. By then, we had a big record deal in the U.S. and the label was focused on breaking America, which never happened.
By the time that single hit in the U.K, we had been on tour constantly for over a year, and we were really sick of each other. My brother left the band and moved to Seattle, which was heartbreaking. I remember that he was slated to move on a Monday, and at the same time we were finalists for TOTPs. Fire Records had everything booked for us to come play on TV, if we were chosen. We were to get the decision on Monday morning, so my brother said he would wait. The decision came on Monday morning: TOTPs chose Menswear over us, so Phil moved to Seattle, and that was pretty much the end of that phase. I do wonder from time to time what would have happened if the show chose us instead.
Was the Spanish tour really the end of the band? Why Spain?
SH: We have not really existed outside of touring Spain for quite a long time (actually we played Boston and NY in the fall of 2023).. The reason for Spain is we got pretty popular there and we can still draw enthusiastic crowds. For some reason, our music really resonates with Spanish fans, particularly the Minor Chords and Major Themes album. The tour last fall in Spain was really fun. Great audiences at every gig. The Spanish people know how to live. We have a special relationship with the audience there. I don’t know if it is really the end of the band. I think Dave might feel we are getting a little long in the tooth for playing loud rock shows, but I hope to play until I keel over.
DG: Well…it’s definitely the end of touring in Spain, but always a chance we’ll play a show or two at some point.
It’s just a little more difficult to find time to get together as we’re all older, have families/jobs etc., and live in different parts of the country. Plus- I have some health issues that make it pretty difficult to sing some times, and we were a band built around harmony singing, so it’s frustrating when I can’t/don’t sing very well. That said- playing with the original guys in the band- people I’ve known pretty much my entire life- is really fun. There is a different level of comfort in playing with old friends when there really isn’t anything to prove; it’s like you’re just playing for the sheer enjoying of playing, and that is a lovely thing that I’ll never get sick of.
We’ve always had fun in Spain, and I think that country really embraced us and we wanted to give some of of Spanish friends a chance to see us live one more time, so our promoter billed it as “the final tour”, even though there is a pretty strong possibility we’ll play there again.
Do you still make music?
DG: I do, occasionally. I’ve played in Tom Morello’s band for years, and still tour with him. It’s a complete 180 from the Gigolo Aunts, but he’s a good friend, and I love getting a chance to play an entirely different kind of music than I did with the Aunts. We played a whole series of total metal festivals last summer and it was amazing.
Last year I also got a chance to tour with my old friends in Velvet Crush for the first time in decades, and that was really enjoyable as well.
SH: I still play a ton! I play regularly with a Celtic rock band called The Howling Wake, mostly at Irish bars around LA. I also play with a garage/power pop band called the Ultra 4. Also, in my neighborhood, we have a weekly jam session in my friend's garage. He has it all outfitted as the ultimate rehearsal studio with tons of great amps, guitar, keyboards, drums. It’s wonderful.
Oh yeah, also, at my school, I am the sponsor of the Guitar Club, so I jam with my students once a week. I still play music often. I have been playing in bands steadily since I was 13. I don’t plan to stop.
What are you doing now?
DG: I live in Los Angeles and own several restaurants, mainly sushi and wine oriented.
SH: I teach English and Psychology at Pilgrim School in Los Angeles. I have been teaching for over 20 years. I have three kids that are in their teens and twenties. Dave is a successful restaurant and wine bar owner. He works really hard, and has done very well for himself. Paul is an administrator at Hebron Academy, a prep school in Maine. My brother Phil is still a full time musician, living in Austin. I guess it is no surprise that Paul and I are educators. All of our parents taught at the same University in our home town. We were basically professor brats.